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TT: Paul,
welcome back to Telemarktips. Thanks for taking the time to answer
a few questions about Garmont's new "Prophet" NTN boot,
but if it's okay with you I would like to first talk a bit about
Rottefella's new system in general, and what you think it brings
to the sport.
PP: Hi Mitch. Thanks for your interest. There is a lot
to cover so I'll get started:
You can't talk about the NTN system
without talking about the boot, since it's a dedicated boot/binding
system. With NTN and the right boot, telemark skiing is a different
sport, as it was with the introduction of the first T1, or as
mountain biking became a different sport with suspension. Those
were revolutionary changes in gear that changed those sports
and our expectations. The changes raised the bar significantly.
It's this sort of thing that keeps me interested in my work,
and in this case, specifically, has rejuvenated my enthusiasm
for telemark skiing.
The NTN skiing system brings unprecedented
performance and user-friendliness to telemark.
The skiing performance of NTN is immediately evident. It skis
much more precisely than 75mm, with superior lateral stiffness
and edge control. Your skis feel tighter to your feet, eliminating
the play of the 75mm duckbill. The boot heel sits flat on the
ski when un-weighted, aiding in tele transitions, parallel turns,
any kind of jump turn. That "over the bars" feeling
so common with tele gear is gone.
NTN's performance is only one element
of its raising the bar, the other being a revolutionary improvement
in user-friendless. The ease of use of NTN is an obvious improvement
as soon as you step into the binding. We have finally grown up
to have a step-in-type binding, with brakes, a release, and a
free-pivot climbing mechanism. I can get my NTN skis on as fast
as my alpine or AT skis, I can leave them on the snow without
their sliding or blowing away down some steep slope. And it releases.
Off the skis, the NTN boot has a
round toe that walks and climbs much more easily, and fits crampons
much better than a duckbill. The boot is compact and streamlined,
with the agility of a ski mountaineering boot.
It is immediately evident that NTN works. It eliminates 75mm's
fiddling that is, at the least, a hassle, and for many skiers
has created a barrier against telemark. I think that's especially
true for alpine skiers whose expectation is the kind of function
that they have with their alpine gear. Easy in and out sounds
much less significant on paper than in practice. If you ride
trams or gondolas frequently, ski patrol, or go in often for
coffee, the ease of entry and exit, with the security of a brake,
is in itself a huge improvement.
TT: I
agree that it's easy to underestimate the benefit of NTN's step-in
feature with the added security of alpine-style ski brakes, and
not just for resort skiing. After my first spring backcountry
season on NTN, I was talking with extreme skier and outspoken
AT skiing advocate Andrew McLean about this at the Summer OR
trade show that year. I was telling him how much I had enjoyed
not having to worry about my skis taking off down the mountain
or rocketing down some steep shot without me. Andrew smiled and
nodded knowingly, "Mitch, that's what I've been trying to
tell you all these years."
PP: You
won't get any argument out of me. In the past I've only had brakes
on my AT and alpine skis. I always ski my AT skis with brakes,
and really appreciate the added security when putting my skis
on in a tight, slippery, and exposed spot.
TT: You've
been involved in the development of NTN from the beginning, going
back more than a decade ago to the time of what we used to call
"the consortium," the initial group of industry leaders,
including Black Diamond, that originally agreed to work together
in an effort to establish a new telemark norm. A lot has changed
in the sport of telemark skiing since that effort began. Technique
has evolved and so has the gear, considerably so it would seem---
the debate over "active" versus "neutral"
bindings was still years away, and the influence of wide bodied,
shaped skis on our approach to the turn had only just begun.
What exactly are those involved hoping to accomplish with NTN,
and how, if at all, have these changes in the sport of telemark
skiing affected those goals?
PP: I
am guessing that our NTN partners would agree, but instead of
speaking for them, I'd rather discuss Garmont's and my goals
for NTN. We want to grow telemark as a sport, and we want telemark
to grow up. To grow, telemark needs to become a more practical
alternative for anyone who skis. We need to turn around the perception
that it's difficult-it is perceived as difficult, even if you
and I don't see it that way.
To grow up, we need to break down
the various barriers that have kept alpine skiers from getting
involved in telemark, as mentioned above. There is the garage-shop
feel of the gear, the hassle getting in and out easily and fast,
snow packing between your boot toes and your bindings on powder
days, the need for safety straps (something that alpine skiing
abandoned 30 years ago), to name a few barriers. We accept those
things as a part of telemark, but those new to the sport don't.
Since I ski telemark but also ski on a lot of other gear, the
lack of user-friendliness in telemark seems especially obvious.
My goal gear-wise is click click,
let's go. Nobody cares what you are skiing on. As the bumper
sticker reads, Nobody Cares That You Tele. It's about getting
out and skiing-no one, except you, cares what you are on. Telemark
is fun, elegant, and different. It's alternative, a bit of rebellion.
We want to preserve that, something especially important as it
grows up. Telemark will stay different because we can make a
different turn, it's elegant, we need athletic balance, we need
quads. We're still telemarking, just better.
I had one other goal when we first started this project in the
late 90s: ROUND TOES. The duckbill is awkward and dangerous for
booting up steep firm slopes, rock scrambling, crampons, not
to mention just crossing an icy parking lot. It makes ski mountaineering
on telemark gear impractical, especially if there is a lot of
time spent scrambling off of the skis. It's also a lot easier
to drive in a pair of NTN boots.
TT: Yeah,
I understand and appreciate all of that, but I guess what I was
getting at is this: The sport has changed a lot since the NTN
project began. Telemark skiers are more aggressive than ever,
they ski harder, faster and demand more from their equipment.
I gather from your earlier comments that you feel as I do that
the new system represents a true step forward with regard to
precision and control, but the performance bar has continually
been raised since the early 90s. Do you feel that the NTN platform
offers more potential for improved performance beyond whatever
limits we may have reached with traditional 75mm gear?
PP: I
think that NTN is the start, the stepping off point of another
evolution in telemark gear. 75mm has hit its peak, in my mind,
and skis very well. NTN is the next generation. It's already
higher performance than 75mm, and of course we gear heads will
continue to try to improve it.
TT: In
the beginning, nearly all of the major players were involved
in the development of boots and bindings to be built to the new
norm. Years later, Black Diamond ended its association with Scarpa,
and then broke away from the NTN consortium in order to pursue
a new proprietary boot/binding interface of its own. Following
this, Garmont decided to sit out the introductory year of NTN
and see what BD would come up with, when BD's binding failed
to materialize, Garmont jumped back on board with NTN and will
have its first NTN model on dealer shelves in early fall, 2009---
NTN's third year in production. It's no secret that the first
two years of NTN have not gone well, given the difficulty Rottefella's
other boot partners have had in producing a reliable boot properly
optimized for the unique characteristics of the NTN binding.
Can you tell us, does Garmont now regret that decision?
PP: I don't think that we at Garmont regret our decision
at all, as we have had other big irons in the fire. We've been
following a chronology, a plan of development of technologies
that would eventually spawn the NTN boot, and it made sense to
give Rottefella time to sort the binding out. We had a couple
of very cool projects that kept us busy in that period: our alpine
boots and our new overlap AT boots. This sequence in the development
in those big projects has given us what we need to truly revolutionize
our tele program. That was our goal.
The Radium overlap AT boot was a
very involved development, one that we finished about this time
last year and is shipping now. The Radium is my all-time favorite
fixed-heel boot. I've mounted a pair of all of my favorite skis
to be skied with Radiums. The Radium and a Tech-compatible binding
have everything that I want in a lock-down setup.
That Radium development, and the
inspiration that it brought, was the last step before Garmont's
new NTN and 75mm tele development. We were dialed with our overlap
technology before we developed the telemark boots. The Radium
fueled the fire and inspired us to build our best telemark boots
ever, both 75mm and NTN.
TT: Over
the course of the many years in which we have been covering the
story of the development of the NTN, I think most of us, at least
on the media side of things, believed that if there were major
problems and failures associated with the introduction of the
new system, those issues would almost certainly involve the binding
rather than the boots. And yet one and a half seasons in, it
would appear that Rottefella's binding has held up nicely, and
that designing and manufacturing boots for NTN has proven to
be far more challenging than anticipated. On several occasions
you have told me privately that Garmont's first NTN boot, the
Prophet NTN was as costly a development as any boot project that
Garmont has ever undertaken. This tells me two things: The first
is that making boots for NTN is indeed more difficult than many
of us had imagined. Second-- and in my mind this is hugely significant
to the future of the system-- that you and Garmont must have
a lot of confidence in Rottefella's ability to continue to refine
and successfully deliver to market the most advanced and full-featured
telemark binding in the history of freeheel skiing.
PP: Our
high-end telemark boots cost more to develop, and more to make,
than comparable alpine boots. Ours have more moving parts, more
injections, more molds, more different modes and functions, and
they have to bend properly. We must use the most elastic and
least temperature-resistant material, Pebax®, because the
boot has to flex through all temperatures. Pebax® is expensive.
With any high-end telemark boot
you spend more money to build the boot, for a limited market.
We have chosen to do it because it's who we are, and it's a sport
and market that we are passionate about and want
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to serve. Certainly we had to ask
that question to be responsible-- do we do it?-- but we quickly
made the decision to move forward and build telemark boots to
the new norm.
TT: Now
let's talk more specifically about the Prophet NTN (but first
a note to our readers on the photos: rather than simply use stock
photos for this piece, I went ahead and shot pics of my actual
test pair, with their already molded liners, etc., click the
pics to view larger versions).
I've been skiing what you have referred
to as a production pair since just before Christmas. I also consider
myself most fortunate to have had the opportunity to ski a prototype
pair of Prophets on a trip out to see you in Colorado last spring
(while also enjoying one of my best powder sessions of the year
on day two of our test, thank you very much). |
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I'll have a review of my own
to share very soon, but in the meantime, please run us through
some of the features and technical arguments you make in favor
of Garmont's first NTN boot. Before you do though, tell us why
you decided to start out by offering a beefy, downhill performance
oriented model rather than a more middle of the road sort of
boot.
PP: Regarding
our offering a beefy boot from the get-go, the first people to
buy a new system are the early adopters. They are curious, they
live for their sport, and they enjoy trying new things. They
are people like you and me, the avid, contributors to the Telemark
Talk Forum, ski patrollers, serious locals. It's what we do,
and we all want to try something new, higher-performance. This
first iteration of the NTN binding is beefy, resort-oriented.
It is most appropriate to start with a beefy boot to match the
binding's robust function. It's certainly what we all want to
ski on to get the most out of the system. That's why we developed
the Prophet NTN with its downhill-oriented orientation-to make
the most out of the NTN system.
Listing the features, allow me to
paraphrase from our workbook, as we have a lot of new features:
- Garmont's newest last, evolved
from the G1, Shaman, and Radium, is the heart of the Prophet
NTN's new Power Wrap design:
Power Wrap shells were developed around the foot. They have a
custom-bootfitter fit out of the box, their molds shaped to provide:
1) More room for the first metatarsal
2) Room for "6th toe"
3) Room for the navicular bone
4) Asymmetric malleoli that match the body's natural asymmetry
5) A deep, supportive heel cup with space for common heel spurs.
- The Power Wrap overlap shell design
follows the contours of the foot and ankle more closely than
traditional tongue-type designs for the best foot retention and
heel hold, superior downhill performance, with a smooth, progressive,
responsive ankle and bellows flex.
- The High Overlap Panel provides
close, gap-free contact with the lower leg and instep, better-distributing
pressure for comfort and the quickest response.
- The new Ergo Bellows design is
asymmetric, shaped like the foot flexes, wider for more travel
and more progressive forward flex. It has been positioned farther
back on the lower shell for more rear-foot contact in the tele,
and better ski control.
- The Ergo Bellows has a separate,
stiffer Power Rib injected at the crest of the bellows for abrasion
resistance and for the most consistent flex.
- Four different injections fine-tune
the lower shell for comfort and performance. The Prophet NTN
has a double-injected cuff that wraps closely around the leg
for quick response with support from its super-stiff rear frame.
- The Prophet NTN's "Second
Heel" is replaceable, built of a tough, high-density Nylon
that is much tougher than the surrounding shell.
- It has a replaceable, high-density
Nylon bellows protector for protection against sharp ski edges.
- The high, supportive panel of the
overlap provides a "handle" that can be spread for
very easy entry
- The soft, silicone-like Water Seal
gasket between the shell's overlaps seals out snow and moisture.
- A height-adjustable spoiler accommodates
different leg shapes for maximum rearward support and contact.
- The Velcro® Power Strap is
wide for a secure closure and broad, powerful pressure distribution.
It wraps securely around the outside of the cuff to bring it
as close as possible to the lower leg.
- Multi-injected "bumpers"
protect the bellows, buckles, and lower shell.
- The Prophet's NTN-compatible bi-color
sole is Dual Density for the best function with the NTN binding,
facilitating both easy binding entry and release function.
- Wide-Open Buckles and Easy-Lock
catches give a solid closure and easier, unrestricted touring.
The Wide-Open's levers are designed with an off-center pivot
that opens as wide as is possible while they are held securely
by the Easy-Lock buckle catches.
- Cuff buckle catches are moveable
to custom-fit different sizes of lower legs.
- Buckles are field-replaceable.
- New Two-Step inside ankle rivet
is stepped with two diameters to prevent pinching and binding
of the cuff and excess stress on the rivet when in walk mode.
- Bomber walk mechanism is clean,
simple, and solid.
- And last but certainly not least,
an all-new liner we've named "Rapid," which is quite
simply the most refined, fully-thermoformable liner on the market,
and it has the following features:
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-- 4
foam thicknesses and densities, each with its specific purpose.
-- Strobel-stitch
design allows the footbed and foot to sit flatter and better-anchored
in the liner, while it maximizes forefoot width for comfort.
-- Strobel
design also allows us to use a different, firmer sole material
for better footbed and foot support.
-- Softer,
thinner, elastic, thermoformable toe insert for warmth and comfort.
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-- T-Bar
Pebax® tongue reinforcement, a Garmont first.
-- Low-profile
lace system.
-- Two
pull-on loops for easy entry and carrying.
-- Extra
reinforcement around the cuff for comfort and performance.
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TT: Your
"Power Wrap" is a true overlap shell design, right?
I mention this because the difference between a true overlap
and some of the conventional wrap-around tongue type tele boot
designs was not immediately apparent to me or to Big Tim when
we were checking a few models boots out side by side recently.
This overlap shell approach has become somewhat standard in high
performance alpine boots, correct?
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PP: That's
correct. The Power Wrap is a true, one-piece overlap, like an
alpine racing boot-not a bolt-on piece or tongue.
We feel that a one-piece overlap
is very important because, when the ski is tipped on edge, it's
the overlapped, medial (inside) part of the shell and cuff that
is pressured.
We have a unique innovation that
we have added to the overlap concept, one that has proven to
be especially effective: We call it our “High Overlap Panel”.
We first proved this concept on our overlap AT boots, and have
incorporated it into the Prophet NTN and other new 75mm tele
boots.
The High Overlap Panel is just that—
we’ve |
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extended the lower shell’s
overlap up to the top of the cuff, tying the lower shell and
cuff together as securely as possible, like a race boot’s
riveted cuff. The performance result of this design is amazing
in how it transfers cuff pressure immediately to the lower shell,
a lower shell that is already super-responsive due to its one-piece
overlap construction.
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TT : I
like this picture (at right) of a "naked" Prophet prototype
lower for the way it shows the overlap shell design and the potential
for transfer of cuff pressure to the rest of the lower shell.
I also like the way it illustrates a key part of your testing
process: skiing the proto lower without bellows protection in
order to better identify the precise location of those parts
of the bellows that need to be protected by the replaceable bellows
guard.
Anyway, moving on, the NTN system
is obviously very different than traditional 75mm bindings and
duckbill equipped boots. Evan Wollo, Rottefella's lead industrial
engineer in charge of the NTN program, once told me that ideally
NTN boots should flex at the bellows in a way that is more similar
to the forefoot flex of old-time leather boots than to today's
75mm, duckbill-equipped plastic boots. And the Prophet sports
a progressive |
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bellows that starts out with
a soft and easy flex which gets stiffer as the skier's stance
in the telemark turn gets lower, and the rear ski boot heel approaches
vertical. I've felt for some time now that this sea-change in
the way plastic tele boots for NTN flex at the bellows will likely
turn out to be the most significant contribution of the new system
to the evolution of the sport-- even beyond that of all the advanced
features, modern look, etc. - and I could go on and on about
this aspect of NTN, but I'd like for you to share with us your
thoughts on bellows flex for boots built to the new norm, why
the softer flex is important, and what effect you feel it may
have on technique, and on our approach to the turn.
PP: Garmont
pioneered multiple-injected technology and flex. When we first
started the NTN project in the 90s, we recognized that the NTN
concept was perfect for that technology. Without the additional
leverage of the duckbill, we needed to build an easier forward
flex, yet a very rigid lateral structure. Multiple injection
makes that possible.
The forward flex needs to be in
proportion to the rest of the system and should be easy and progressive.
Otherwise, if your boot is too stiff it rolls up on the toe,
it's narrowest point, and then it takes two steps to make a telemark:
one as you change leads, and another "step" to load
and flex the bellows. If you can flex the bellows as you change
leads, with torsional control, you are much quicker on all kinds
of snow. You can weight the back foot quickly, with precision.
TT: I
have found that I've been able to return to a more balanced stance
as a result of the softer, easier bellows flex of the NTN boots.
It's been really fun to get back to skiing both skis again, 50/50,
and not have to sit on my back foot to break the bellows, as
I had found myself doing more and more as 75mm boots became bigger
and ever ever stiffer. It seems to me that the easier flexing
bellows of NTN boots could really turn out to be a huge benefit
for lighter weight men, smaller women and for kids who want the
control and precision of big boots, but with a bellows they can
actually weight enough to break easily and get off their toes.
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PP: I
think an easier-flexing bellows, if it's progressive and in proportion
to the rest of the boot and binding system, is a benefit for
any telemark skier. You can eliminate that step that you refer
to as "sitting on the back foot to break the bellows".
That's exactly what I mean when
I say that too-stiff a bellows requires a second step. So often
you don't have time for it or, in soft snow, you don't have the
resistance against the ski to help you bend the bellows. |
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TT: Paul,
I know that in recent years you've been skiing AT quite a lot,
especially on long, challenging tours and such. You've expressed
to me on several occasions, and you mentioned briefly earlier
in this interview, how the NTN system has renewed your interest
and enjoyment of the telemark turn, and how the features and
performance have led you back to your freeheel roots. Coming
from someone who literally wrote the book that is the dogma-free
bible of our sport, this is a development certainly worthy of
note. And while NTN is, beyond all else a telemark skiing system,
it's also worthy of note that many have found NTN to take the
freeheel parallel skiing experience to whole new level of performance.
Mike Hattrup, a guy who also has made a few alpine style turns
in his time, told me, in a video interview we shot a couple of
years ago that he feels NTN skis parallel as well as any AT rig
he's been on. Your thoughts?
PP: Last year when I started testing the Prophet NTN prototypes,
we'd just finished the Radum AT boot and its last tweaks before
production. I am very enthusiastic about the Radium and what
it brings to AT and freeride skiing. It walks better yet skis
better than anything comparable. It's light, with a better range
of motion for walking, yet its overlap construction has unparalleled
alpine-performance and great ski feel. I have mounted a pair
of all my favorite skis with Tech bindings because I want that
compatibility to ski the Radium, my favorite fixed-heel boot.
The Radium was our starting point
for the Prophet NTN, where we set the bar. I expected a compromise
when switching to the Prophet NTN after so much time on the Radium,
but it wasn't there. Once I'd found the best shell among the
different stiffnesses that we were testing, I couldn't believe
how the Radium's overlap concept, with its High Overlap Panel,
translated to the best telemark boot that I'd ever skied.
I use parallel technique a lot and
find the new system and our Prophet NTN incredibly effective.
My friends who've tried my boots tell me the same thing.
TT: One
last question in regard to the new boots: The thing I was most
struck by in skiing the pair of Prophet NTNs I've been on recently
is how they flex, ski and fit exactly as did the prototype pair
I tested with you at Breckenridge last spring. In light of the
events of the past two seasons this was, to put it mildly, pleasantly
reassuring. As near as I can tell, your position at Garmont is
somewhat unique in that you have a single responsibility. You
aren't running the company, you are not directly involved in
selling product or managing any part of the work force. You have
one job, and that is to develop for manufacture and sale the
best ski boots possible While I understand that it can hardly
be considered an unforgivable sin to make late in the game design
changes in a sincere effort to deliver a better product, I cannot
end this interview without asking what for me has become the
most important question of all: Can you promise me that these
Prophets I've been skiing and enjoying so much the past few weeks
are 100% representative of the final production boots that telemark
skiers can expect to find on store shelves and offered by Web
retailers beginning early next fall?
PP: The
Prophet NTN that we are producing is the same structure, the
same stiffnesses (durometers) as the boot you were testing last
spring. This project went quite smoothly from the start with
the experience we gained from the Radium, and because we had
a good idea of what we wanted flex-wise from so many years testing
NTN throughout its development.
Once we had done quite a lot of
testing and had determined the specifics, we made another pair
for your test last spring. I was most concerned about forward
flex, as that was a big issue with NTN last year, and wanted
confirmation from someone who had spent a lot of time on NTN.
The boot has changed little since we did that test. We have refined
different features as we've done various injection tests, developed
the bellows protection according to where these first protos
were marked by ski edges, refined assembly details, but the structure
remained the same.
The final sample that you received
before Christmas represents production. Skiing the genre that
you skied last spring, and switching over to these final samples,
there is no perceivable skiing difference. If we make any further
changes before production they will only be cosmetic-- no way
would we want to negate all of that valuable testing.
TT: Thanks
Paul.
PP: Thank
you for having me. |